Baseball Musings
Baseball Musings
March 17, 2005
Hearings

The hearings are underway. I don't have C-Span3 on my satellite, so I'm wathcing on the net.

Tom Davis bastardized Casey at the Bat in his opening remarks. That takes him down a notch in my view, as it's my favorite poem.

Jim Bunning is testifying, saying in his day ballplayers got worse as they got older, not better. He mentioned Hank Aaron and Willie Mays and how they didn't hit more HR in their late 30's than in their late 20's. That may be true, but Aaron came awfully close. He hit 163 from age 26 to age 29, and 159 from age 36 to age 39. I wouldn't say that's worse.

Bunning is for the nuclear option. He wants all record wiped out for players who have used steroids. He sounds like an old ballplayer who wants to protect his peers, especilly Maris and Aaron.

I'll keep updating this thread.

Update: 11:15 AM EST. The panel has taken a 30 minute recess to go vote. I still don't understand the hangup on a two-year suspension, just because the Olympics do that. The NFL has a four game suspension. They seem fine with that. We shouldn't be trying to drive people out of the game, we should be helping them to stay clean.


Update: The parents of teenagers who committed suicide after using steroids are testifying now.

Update: 12:10 PM EST. Dr. Nora Volkow of the NIH is testifying on the effects of steroid abuse. She's saying that the dose athletes take are about 100 times the dose used in therapy. Another reason I'd like to see steroids taken under a doctor's care.

Update: 12:15 PM EST. Dr. Gary Wadler, NYU is now testifying. He works for the Olympics on doping.

Update: 12:19 PM EST. Dr. Wadler brings up amphetamines. Good. Someone should have asked Bunning if he thought his teammates who used speed were cheating.

Update: 12:23 PM EST. Dr. Kirk Brower, University of Michigan pyschiatrist, is now trying to show a slide show, but it's not working. He's talking about the psychological effects of steroids on people and teenagers specificially.

Update: 12:27 PM EST. Kirk is talking about double blind studies of the effect of steroid withdrawl on depression. 10% were found to go into severe depression. The doses were high, 5 to 6 times a theraputic dose. Athletes take up to 100 times the theraputic dose, and the size of the dose effects the development of depression.

Update: 12:34 PM EST. Dr. Elliot Pellman is addressing the two year ban. He's saying that a lot of positive tests come from accidental ingestion of contaminated supplements. He's saying that's why a first positive shouldn't lead to a long term ban, and he thinks that the MLB program compares favorably to the NFL's program. Finally someone is talking sense.

Update: Pellman is the cheif medical advisor for MLB. He's also worked with the NFL on the same problem.

Update: 12:45 PM EST. Pellman is being questioned, and is asking the Congressman why all precursors weren't banned last year?

Update: 1:18 PM EST. Tom Lantos: Capitalism is to blame!

Update: 1:40 PM EST. Pellman was being pressed on loopholes in the agreement. He says the intention is to suspend and make the suspension public. He promises to resign if that doesn't happen.

Update: 1:45 PM EST. Sosa has issued a statement that he's clean. This article is written as if these event have happened, but people have just issued statements at this point.

Update: 1:47 PM EST. Olney is reporting that Gammons was talking to some players from the Angels, and they said the agreement they saw had nothing about a fine. But the agreement Congress has does mention a fine.

Update: 2:09 PM EST. That panel is over, and it was probably the most important one of the day, although it won't get the most publicity. There were two interesting conflicts of interest on that panel. Gary Wadler runs testing labs and wants MLB out of the business of testing. That, of course, would give him more business. Pellman advises MLB, so I expected his answers to put MLB in a positive light.

That said, I thought Pellman was the more interesting witness. He's the only one that disagreed with the general consensus. He appeared to have a lot of credibility in my view. I can't wait to see how Manfred and Selig explain the difference in language about the fines.


Update: 2:31 PM EST. Canseco is putting on a good act. He's even crying. Doesn't he know there's no crying in baseball?

Update: 2:34 PM EST. Jim Sharp (Sosa's lawyer?) is reading the statement for Sammy Sosa. Sosa is sitting next to him.

Update: 2:38 PM EST. Mark McGwire was just sworn. McGwire's crying, too. I guess teenagers committing suicide even get to these guys. The bash brothers are the balling brothers today.

Update: 2:40 PM EST. McGwire won't name names.

Update: 2:41 PM EST. McGwire doesn't like Canseco's book. I guess they're not close brothers.

Update: 2:43 PM EST. McGwire is directing his foundation to fight steroid use among young people. Now Palmeiro is up, and he's saying he's never used steroids.

Update: 2:49 PM EST. Schilling up now. He says steroids are not necessary for success. He's also warning the committee about glorifying Canseco.

Update: 2:52 PM EST. Schilling thinks that public disclosure of steroid use is the real teeth of the program. He says that being labeled a cheater is the biggest deterrent of the program.

Update: 2:54 PM EST. Frank Thomas sworn in via video link.

Update: 2:56 PM EST. Thomas says he never used steroids. The committee is going into a 20 minute recess.

Update: 3:20 PM EST. I was just looking at the NY Times, and found this picture of Selig. Do the photographers just wait for the worst look they can get on Bud's face? Selig should learn to smile through everything.

Update: 4:00 PM EST. They're still in recess. I'm wondering if the committee members are all getting autographs? :-)

Update: 4:15 PM EST. The committee is back and they're questioning the players.

Update: 4:18 PM EST. Palmeiro just said he never saw steroids used in the club house. Now Schilling is saying he grossly overstated the problem. He says he had suspicions, but he never knew that players were actually using.

Update: 4:23 PM EST. I don't think these legislatures get that suspending someone for two years from baseball suspends them for life. It's awfully hard to come back successfully from a year off; I can't see coming back from a two-year layoff and having any kind of career left.

Update: 4>29 PM EST. McGwire is refusing to talk about his Andro use.

Update: Canseco is being called on the contradictions of his book and his testimony. In his book, he says that use by all athletes would be good. Now he's saying they're bad.

Update: 4:45 PM EST. Someone just asked the players if they thought federal legislation could solve the problem, and they all said yes. Just what we need, more regulation. They should leave that question to their union.

Update: 4:47 PM EST. A South Park moment. McGwire was asked what his message to children would be. He said, "Steroids are bad."

Update: 5:06 PM EST. They should have fans testify. Why don't they have a panel of bloggers? There are bloggers on all sides of this issue. And we write because we're huge fans. Why not let us voice our opinions on this?

Update: 5:07 PM EST. Gil Gutknecht gets the Maris asterisk wrong. There never was an asterisk. The record book lists records for 162 game season and 154 game seasons where the 162 game record is higher. If someone breaks the doubles record, the same thing will happen.

Update: 5:10 PM EST. Now the players are saying baseball can clean itself up. 25 Minutes ago they said Congressional legislation would help.

Update: 5:13 PM EST. Schilling just flat out called Canseco a liar.

Update: 5:15 PM EST. Canseco just said his book drove steroids from the game! Amazing, a book that wasn't published until last month drove the rate down in 2004!

Update: 5:27 PM EST. Sosa is saying nothing. It would be nice if someone pressed him on some issue, like why we should trust his statement if he's a known cheater?

Update: 5:41 PM EST. McGwire was just asked flat out if he used anything other than andro and he refused to answer.

Update: 6:00 PM EST. ESPN is taking a break. I must admit, the players are pretty boring. I wonder if they're really going to get to Selig and others tonight? It's getting late.

Update: 6:32 PM EST. Just back from dinner. Selig is reading his statement.

Update: 6:36 PM EST. This is an important statement by Selig:

Some have suggested that greater penalties, particularly for first offenders, would be in order. With the guidance of my medical advisors, however, I agreed to the lesser penalties on the theory that behavior modification should be the most important goal of our policy and that the penalties in our new policy were well-designed to serve that goal.

I agree with this 100%.

Manfred is now reading his statement.

Update: 6:39 PM EST. Manfred is saying that all players who test positive will be suspended. That's the understanding of the owners and the players. He says the fine language should have been removed. The players union has agreed not to challenge any suspensions due to a positive drug test.

Update: 6:49 PM EST. Fehr is on now. He's not reading his statement, but it is being entered into the record.

Update: 6:56 PM EST. Fehr agrees that the fine is not an option. He says the players will be suspended and the union will not challenge.

Update: Fehr brings up gene doping. It isn't happening now, but it will happen in the future. Alderson is speaking now.

Update: Alderson Canseco was a developing star before he claims to have started using steroids.

Update: 7:08 PM EST. There is an appeal period if there is a positive test. That's good. This is the first time I've heard that a player can appeal a positive result.

Update: 7:11 PM EST. Manfred the fines are staying in to deal with drugs of abuse, not steroids.

Update: 7:20 PM EST. Interesting exchange between Waxman and Selig. Waxman says while the CBA didn't let Selig test everyone in the early 1990s, the MLB Constitution did let the commissioner investigate an individual if there was probable cause.

Waxman brought up the Manny Alexander case. Manfred said they did investigate, they did test, and Alexander was clean, so there was no suspension.

Update: 7:26 PM EST. Fehr doesn't want to destroy careers with tougher penalties.

Update: 7:28 PM EST. Batgirl has a re-enactment of the hearings. (Via Teepee Talk)

Update: 7:33 PM EST. Chris Shays is a blowhard.

Update: 7:37 PM EST. Elijah Cummings has no idea what rope-a-dope is.

Update: 7:47 PM EST Paul Kanjorski is making a calm point that other congressmen were ranting over. He wants to know why players who test positive aren't turned over for prosecution. Unfortunately, he used a speech rather than asking a question, so it's not getting answered.

Update: 7:56 PM EST. Fehr says that players aren't immune from prosecution. If they get thrown in jail, they don't get work and they don't get paid.

Update: 8:24 PM EST. This is getting boring now. It's the same thing over and over. The committee can't seem to get their heads around the idea that they got a draft, and the draft keeps changing. Advice to any one appearing before Congress: Don't send a draft of a document!

Update: 9:00 PM EST. Ruppersberger asked Selig if he would use tougher testing as a deal breaker in the next CBA. Selig was elusive. Fehr is elusive on the question as well.

Update: 9:12 PM EST. Waxman wants new leadership for baseball (I assume he means a new commissioner). While I agree with that for other reasons, Waxman is just grandstanding here.

Update: 9:15 PM EST. Thank goodness it's over.

To sum up, Congress doesn't believe baseball is doing enough. Baseball believes it's made great strides, and everyone should let testing go ahead to see if it works.

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Posted by David Pinto at 10:47 AM | Cheating | TrackBack (3)
Comments

I believe ESPN is broadcasting this dog-and-pony show as well, just in case you don't want to watch on the Internet.

Posted by: Philip M. at March 17, 2005 11:17 AM

Has anyone noticed the Lipitor ad on the bottom right hand corner of ESPN's coverage of the Congressional Hearing?

Kind of humorous that the company that provides others with a different kind of performance enhancement(Viagra) is being promoted.

Posted by: Tim at March 17, 2005 12:25 PM

Its hard to phrase this gently enough given the tragedy involved; but am I alone in thinking its irresponsible of Congress to give this fellow Hooten a national platform from which to accuse MLB of having more responsibility for his son's death than he himself does? This is Carroll O'Connor II, the sequel.

I mean what if the kid had lived, and grown up to be a major league player on steroids and someone else's kid died? Would Hooten then be so gung-ho to see his kid punished as proof of MLB's committment to good parenting?

Suppose his kid had died of vicodin abuse? Would he then be out to nail Rush Limbaugh's employers for not keeping him off the air? I suppose I believe that it takes a village, but that doesn't make someone who never even met your child responsible for his- or your- lack of common sense.

And now we'll hear from WADA, the new Anslinger... power is lying in the locker rooms of the world-- all they want to do is pick it up; all of it.
For those who don't follow soccer, they tried to block the Olympic Soccer Tournament because FIFA wouldn't allow them to determine suspensions for all FIFA competition based on Olympic positive tests. WADA's contract was with the Olympic Committee you see, not FIFA.

This is grotesque-- I'm going to the gym. If I watch this any longer I'm afraid some of it will get on me, and I've got a precinct meeting tonight.

Posted by: john swinney at March 17, 2005 12:29 PM

Haha, this Michigan doctors' slideshow isn't working...and on the internet feed the camera focused in on it and you saw that microsoft office paperclip helper dude popup to give some advice.

Brings to memory just about every single powerpoint presentation I've ever done :)

-Nate

Posted by: Nate at March 17, 2005 12:29 PM

Statisically, Bunning made an ass of himself. What ever happened to actual FACTS as opposed to making general assumptions? When Ted Williams was 38 years old he hit 38 homeruns (a career high) and batted .388

Posted by: Jay Tierney at March 17, 2005 01:37 PM

Williams is a bad example. First, his career high in homers was 43 at age 30. Second, his career high in slugging and OPS+ was at age 22. Third, he had 546 plate appearances in 1957, compared to over 660 eight times in his first ten seasons. Fourth, a lot more guys would set career highs in homers in their late thirties if they spent ages 24-26 and 33-34 in the military.

The fact is, great players have always had the ability to keep on truckin' in their late 30s, like Aaron, Ruth, Cobb, Williams. Some of the current guys are consistent with that - Sosa's big power years were ages 29-32, McGwire's surge from 32-36 was exaggerated by his earlier injuries and changes in the game. But the phenomenon of players - well, one player - having a massive improvement after age 35 compared to what was already a successful career is totally without precedent.

Posted by: Crank at March 17, 2005 02:21 PM

"changes of the game" i.e. steroid usage

Posted by: sabernar at March 17, 2005 02:31 PM

Will Carroll is also liveblogging the hearings at his new site:
http://thejuice.baseballtoaster.com/archives/157692.html

Not to say David is doing a bad job, just that Will's perspective is valuable as well.

Posted by: Linkmeistet at March 17, 2005 04:53 PM

David - I'd like you to stop blogging about this right away, because all you're doing is talking about the past... ;-)

Posted by: Iain at March 17, 2005 05:51 PM

Good line, Iain (as usual).

Posted by: Tom G at March 17, 2005 06:02 PM

"changes of the game" i.e. steroid usage"

Also expansion that further dilutes the pitching pool, smaller strike zones, smaller ballparks...

Posted by: steve at March 17, 2005 09:24 PM

global warming, shaved bats, constricted strike zone, elbow armor...

Posted by: john swinney at March 17, 2005 10:04 PM

Now baseball players need to hold televised hearings on whether the morons in congress are doing a good job on a hundred different issues.

Posted by: LargeBill at March 17, 2005 11:52 PM
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